Forum:Massive game manipulation
}} Or Squeezing the game generator for desired drops... So I created a testing character. There are several things I want to test and I figured "why not test them all at once". Only one doesn't have to do with direct game manipulation. This is not my only test character I plan on making, but it's a start. The things I want to test ("touch" means to pick up): * Bleed-out time for all PT's (playthroughs) (the only thing that is not manipulation) * Increased chances of getting backpack SDU's on PT 2 by NOT getting them on PT 1 * Increased chances of getting gun types that are "touched" * Increased chances of getting gun types by only buying ammo SDU's for that type * Increased chances of getting artifact types by only "touching" those types * This uses the fact that ammo drops/loot happen "in the field" on only gun types that are "touched" The theory for this is to "squeeze" the game generator and get through the game by getting NO backpack SDU's (until PT 2) and buying NO ammo SDU's. The vehicle to launch this is choosing, beforehand, which weapons you will ultimately use and only "touch" those type of weapons. This gives you ammo "in the field" for those weapons, making ammo SDU's less paramount. Backpack SDU's are less paramount since you are focused on limited types of guns. Cutting out ammo options from the generator means that there are other things to drop. Add in the increased chance of backpack SDU's on PT2, the speculation of ammo SDU's, and thoughts that ammo drops are affected by "touching" so why not weapon drops? This could conceivably squeeze the generator to produce favored drops. Practicality: Making several back-up saves, "time stamped" to revert back and repeat tests with different factors added (i.e. going over the same run with different ammo SDU's or weapon types "touched"). This is also very useful if you accidentally "touch" a weapon you didn't mean to, since you have to revert back by exiting without saving or overwriting the character file to a previous time. The missions that give gun types, that you don't want, must be avoided. There are 3 missions that give you a gun but only show a cup icon, instead of a gun icon. Circle Of Death: Final Round gives a shotgun, Insult To Injury gives a rocket launcher, and Up To Our Ears gives a machine gun (combat rifle). Note: You cannot "squeeze" the generator further by avoiding grenade mods, since grenade mods are part of missions that beat the game, starting with Nine-Toes: Time To Collect. The mission Get Some Answers gives a random artifact and any unwanted artifact has to be bypassed by reverting until a desired artifact spawns. Sadly, this should be done the long way since, as far as I know, Willowtree can't erase the fact that a character "touched" any one weapon (receiving no ammo drops for that weapon). Roland is the obvious choice, for most of the tests, since he can get a ammo regen Mod and can use combat rifles (also eridians) for short and long range. However, the character I decided to try first is Brick since his Diehard skill manipulates bleed-out time. He can also rely heavily on melee, if he runs out of ammo, and can heal at level 5 for less healing kits in his backpack. Tests The initial test seems pretty positive. Since the generator is running low on options, money seems to drop a lot more and healing is more common. Red chests offer ammo for the gun types it carries which is the only way to get that ammo, other than vendors. As the game progresses, it seems that drops become more varied, although the manipulation (seemingly) is still working. Test results with Brick on New Haven chests: Brick opened 5 white chests 10 times. The weapons touched were SMG, sniper rifle, rocket launcher, and the starting shotgun. No ammo deck upgrades. The 50 chests yielded 46 chests with 2 guns each and 4 chests with 4 guns each (pistols), for a total of 108 guns. 79 guns were able to be "picked up" by being a SMG, sniper rifle, rocket launcher, or a shotgun. 29 guns were unwanted and not picked up, including the pistols. The total chests that had complete unusable content was 8. Although, 24 chests contained at least one unusable gun. This result may be skewed due to the fact that 4 guns out of 7 were touched. I am currently testing Mordecai with only sniper rifles and repeater pistols. More results coming soon. I am the best robot 11:50, February 9, 2011 (UTC) Finally got some hours in :) As expected Mordecai, with only sniper and repeater, is more telling. The test runs are the same as above opening 50 chests in 10 runs. Test 1 ---- 8 pistol chests, 42 regular: 116 guns total. 11 unusable pistols (revolvers) 21 usable (repeaters). Types other than pistols: 63 unusable, 21 snipers. Giving 74 unusable guns and 42 usable (repeaters and snipers). Test 2 ---- 8 pistol chests, 42 regular: 116 guns. 8 unusable pistols, 24 repeaters. Other guns: 51 unusable, 33 snipers. Giving 59 unusable and 57 usable gun types. Test 3 ---- 5 pistol chests, 46 regular: 112 guns. 2 revolvers, 16 repeaters. Other guns: 64 unusable, 28 snipers. Giving 66 unusable, and 44 usable. After that I filed away a copy of Mordecai and then bought him SDU's for pistol and snipers. SDU test 1 ---- 9 pistol chests, 41 regular: 118 guns. 7 revolvers, 29 repeaters. Other guns: 55 unusable, 27 snipers. Giving 62 unusable, and 56 usable. It seems that it MAY NOT be working... will do more SDU test runs later. 10:42, February 13, 2011 (UTC) Project Bullethoser (Mordecai Anarchy Style Build) Project Bullethoser Objectives A. Achieve the following Build: http://talent.87bazillion.com/hunter.php?550500555553055005505 B. Test the following items: * Increased chances of getting gun types that are "touched" * Increased chances of getting gun types by only buying ammo SDU's for that type * Increased chances of getting artifact types by only "touching" those types * This uses the fact that ammo drops/loot happen "in the field" on only gun types that are "touched" Observations -Currently, gun touches is not effectively influencing the types of guns that are dropped. Accelerating touch counts by purchasing any SMG weapons available in Marcus vendors. -SDU levels are also low, and don't seem to be affecting drop types. -Ammo types are much more likely to stay within the needed types so long as other gun types are not touched. HOWEVER, there is a chance in Red Chests that ammo for the guns spawned will be provided. Next Objective: Continue collecting SMGs, avoiding all other weapons and minimize other item pickups. Discovery: Opened a Red Chest after obtaining Bone Shredder, had Shotgun and Pistol....but only ammo for SMG and Sniper Rifle. Proves that chests can only provide ammo spawns that are registered by touches. PROVES NOTHING. Encountered a Red Chest with Repeater Pistol ammo in it, picked up mistakenly for SMG ammo. Luckily, I saved in the Lost cave while stocking up on ammo at Marcus's vendors. Discovery: Though there's a good variety in the weapon drops on kills, SMGs tend to be quite desirable (before messup mentioned above, obtained at 35 power, level 7 SMG). Discovery: Touching an ammo pickup or purchasing an ammo pickup dooms you to finding that ammo on the field. Watch what you pick up! Awesome Box Spawns Awesome Box refers to a Red Chest that is programmed to provide loot at a higher level than the player is currently at. The first of these can be encountered in Arid Badlands, in the area where you encounter the Scavenger: Sniper Rifle mission. I feel this is good to note at a lower level such as my character to help predict future Red Chest spawns. Note: As awesome as some of these items may seem for my character's level...I resisted the urge to touch them if they weren't SMGs ;_; Figures, first one is a pimp ass sniper rifle and class mod. Comments I'm having a little bit of trouble understanding what exactly you're doing here. Are you testing these to see if by using the options above, do you get more or less ammo for that particular gun by running with that gun? Same with artifacts/etc? Seems kind of a long shot, but I'm sure others can help with this, as a one run test won't fully explain this. Might want some backup to get a thorough test. Ryo Kasami 15:52, January 31, 2011 (UTC) Yes, exactly. The ammo thing is proven (clarity was added to the page). You only get ammo for gun types you "touched". I am always looking for others to help LOL. Especially here :) I am the best robot 20:27, January 31, 2011 (UTC) Quoting: Sadly, this should be done the long way since, as far as I know, Willowtree can't erase the fact that a character "touched" any one weapon (receiving no ammo for that weapon). *: Although I haven't tested it, I believe you can accomplish this by manipulating the ammo pools. For example, if you want a character to forget that he ever picked up a combat rifle, get rid of any combat rifles you have and then use Willowtree to delete the Combat Rifle Ammo Pool. MouseyPounds 01:02, February 1, 2011 (UTC) That would be extremely cool and should be tested. I am the best robot 10:12, February 1, 2011 (UTC) Willing to test all of the above by building a Mordecai build that focuses solely on using SMG weapons (will be skewed a bit, considering he will have in fact 'touched' 1 sniper rifle). Could also help to test that theory with minimal touches, as well. Ryo Kasami 06:04, February 2, 2011 (UTC) I have revamped the page a bit.I am the best robot 11:19, February 2, 2011 (UTC) Best Robot, I am wondering if I should consider buying ammo SDUs for my SMG when I get it? I realize that ammo is dropping like crazy for my Sniper Rifle (the ONLY ammo dropping beyond Red Chest drops), but will this test if more SMGs drop from monsters? Red Chests seem unphased so far, as I've gotten a SMG from a Red Chest once already. Also, avoiding online and split screen play, as I am not sure how playing with others affects these. I don't feel it would affect things, but just a consideration. Finally, should I be concerned with Shield drops? I feel they'd alter the playing field a bit as far as drops are concerned, so I'm trying to keep them to a minimum as well. Ryo Kasami 06:39, February 5, 2011 (UTC) 06:26, February 5, 2011 (UTC) You may do so at anytime :) I personally wait until New Haven to do chest test runs with and without SDU's as it is at least a base line to work with. The shield and grenade thing is rather tricky.I decided to ignore data on shields and grenades (I would rather only pick up one or at most two types of artifacts and see if that does anything). There are main missions that give grenades and who can say what type of shield would have influence? Nice data BTW. I have noticed scag piles in particular to be better drops (I'm level 21, I think, in new haven) I have data on New Haven runs on my brick but I think I skewed the character by using 4 weapons for end game stuff (sniper, SMG, rocket launcher, and the starting shotgun). I decided to really limit myself with MORD and only snipers and repeaters (since you get them alot as a low level gun AND the chests with pistols will give data on repeaters vrs revolvers). I am the best robot 09:27, February 5, 2011 (UTC) P.S. I think I know what you mean by the shields. My theory is that once something is "touched" it is touched forever (only the type of shield MIGHT have influence), since it is that way for ammo. Also, feel free to put any test data in the test section if you want :) I am the best robot 09:58, February 5, 2011 (UTC) What's with all the spam suddenly hitting this thread? --Ryo Kasami 16:36, February 6, 2011 (UTC)